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Post by dudeisuck on Nov 3, 2014 8:10:59 GMT -5
It is open to the public. We do have fully painted armies duking it out occasionally. Right now we are in the middle of a painting escalation league. Another roadblock is poor college students can't buy paint apparently. I've even offered to do painting nights and teaching sessions.
A bunch of the people with armies at home said they'd bring them back next semester, so we shall see how the player base jumps from there.
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Post by nogle on Nov 3, 2014 10:01:57 GMT -5
I finally just checked their webpage (http://www.rit.edu/sg/rwag/). looks like meetings are on Tuesdays 7-11(though the page is from 2012). checked RIT's schedule too and clases end weekend of millennium tourney in December. I think I might come out the first week of December and get a practice game in for Millenium
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Post by calypso2ts on Nov 3, 2014 11:05:53 GMT -5
There are really two pieces to the format of a tournament: list restrictions, terrain, and missions. Either one can really control the balance of the game. I think the terrain that I have seen at Millennium, B&W and Da Boyz is outstanding. It is less well put together at PTGRTS.
The generic drift it seems has been towards the BAO format book missions. This was okay for the first year we played it - but at this point those same missions are getting worn out. I loved the Da Boyz missions in 2011/2012 and the B&W missions. I remember craig in particular saying we are designing these missions to penalize min/max play for each one. I think they really succeeded in terms of design for army performance and fun.
I have actually opened my mind a bit on the inclusion of 30k/Forgeworld. I have not been a huge fan in the past, but it is really a full ecosystem of games when you bring all those components together. I have not seen anything terribly unfun to play against (difference between unbalanced and unfun too - the fun part is more what I care about). One change I would love to see is variation on points. The game plays differently at different point levels and it adds variety - plus lower points let you throw together different armies you might have never played before. At a 1k tournament I would love to bring some slaanesh chariots - at 1850 they tend to end up as mush too quickly.
I am working to make it to Erie early next year to support their events.
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Post by psykerchild on Nov 3, 2014 14:56:36 GMT -5
nogle Yup the page is a bit old, they open the doors around 6 now.
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Post by nogle on Nov 8, 2014 22:24:10 GMT -5
I was rereading and thinking. It think it comes down to fun, this is a game and people don't like games that aren't fun. For those that have played for a while(3+ editions), does it seem that overtime a higher percentage of the games now aren't fun for one of the players? maybe I was wondering how many people have tried objective cards. now I know that people say that they are so random and you can lose the game. I think that could be a good thing. I would say that random matchup of the 2 armies affects the game more than the cards. I've used it a few times and they use it sometimes in Erie. It can make the games more fun. An army that has a horrible matchup (such as no AA vs. a flyer army) can win. I had a game that I got tabled, that I lead after 3 turns only because of good cards. The tabling didn't hurt as much, because I lead for most of the game. maybe people can try it at home and see BTW I like the new Adepticon formats: Classic, Highlander, exterminatus and championships. Though I am still bewildered at the amount of stuff available, but 30k isn't. I almost picture all of the armies are fighting on a planet and a time warp opens and a 30k army comes out and wipes the planet clean(they are that crazy good, I guess). Then again, it's gonna be a while before I go again
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Post by dudeisuck on Nov 9, 2014 0:58:37 GMT -5
I love maelstrom mission cards, they make games more interesting and less "last minute drop down and do something. Hurts gunlines and non-aggressive lists, which are a bigger part of the winning lists (not including White Scars).
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dhf3
Grot Herder
Posts: 5
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Post by dhf3 on Nov 10, 2014 12:14:45 GMT -5
I haven't made it to an event in over a year, not because of the format, I'm happy to play anything, but because of my new schedule. I had to take a second job in a restaurant so getting a Saturday off is very difficult. I'd definitely try to make it out once a month if there is ever an event on a Sunday, it's about the same distance for me to go to Erie, Buffalo or Rochester so I'd be willing to try anywhere. I know Sunday's are tough because of church and football in the fall but I'll continue to keep an eye on the forums to see if anyone decides to try it.
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Post by hyv3mynd on Nov 10, 2014 21:15:18 GMT -5
I love the tactical objective cards also, but they're tough to implement because everyone really needs their own deck and since new army releases are coming with their own cards, some way to standardize deck limitations and alterations. I've played several games with them and they really create a way for someone to win a bad match up, or turn the tables and pull off a win at the last minute.
I agree that it comes down to having fun but the tricky balance is that some people feel comp restrictions make for more fun games by limiting power builds, while others feel forcing them to leave units home limits fun. I think the best compromise is to cycle formats and points levels so new players can come with unpainted armies, the fluff/comp players get some quality events, and competitive gamers get thrown a bone too.
That's part of the B&WB's success I think, they provided an event different than what we usually see around here.
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Post by nogle on Nov 10, 2014 23:09:17 GMT -5
At Erie they have the objectives printed out on a sheet. I use the cards and just note on the sheet what turn I got the card and then when achieved or discarded.
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Post by Crispy on Nov 11, 2014 9:38:02 GMT -5
Here's something I was just thinking about, we should ask players that haven't been around in a while what they like/don't like about the tourney scene. While I think the input from our veteran players is great, I think we need to reach out to the people that don't come out anymore or come out infrequently.
My initial guess is that for many people, life in general has changed, and it's hard to make it out.
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Post by nettik189 on Nov 11, 2014 9:51:13 GMT -5
That or when they do come out you guys destroy them in games and they get discouraged at least thats how it is for the guys at 2 kings
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Post by nogle on Nov 11, 2014 10:37:17 GMT -5
some of those people will be at DaBoyz GT. its a good time to talk to them and ask
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Post by hyv3mynd on Nov 11, 2014 12:14:36 GMT -5
That or when they do come out you guys destroy them in games and they get discouraged at least thats how it is for the guys at 2 kings Be careful with this line of thought. When you charge people to play games and reward those who play the best, is it a fair expectation that some players "pull their punches" to go easy on other players? Where do you draw the line? A part of this is accomplished with restrictions, comp, and opponent rankings. A lot of us come out to have some fun and throw dice, and tournaments may be our only chance, but it's still a competition and some of us still get our warm fuzzies from bragging rights and monthly standings. This hobby is a huge investment in time from assembling and painting models, as well as financially . There's a learning curve in list design, painting, and game play. It took me a full year before I had 1850pts fully painted and a full year before I won 3 games on a Saturday to place. Getting "destroyed" is part of the game. The grim darkness of the future, there is only war... and all that good stuff. Losing a lot of games is part of the learning process on the road to winning games. IDK about 2Kings, I've never been there, but the Rochester tournament scene is VERY tame compared to just about any other city/region. I use, and have been accused of using some of the toughest lists in the area, but have never even tapped the potential of what GW allows in list design and force org. I've never used triple anything, you can look at every collection. 2 tervigons, 2 wave serpents, 2 NDK's. Rochester as a community is similar. I've not seen someone here pull out 3 Imperial Knights, 6 wave serpents, a full seer council, or any of the shenanigans you read about on dakka winning tournaments. Courtney, Crispy, Erich, and Koszka are probably the most frequent top finishers locally and their lists are almost always "highlander" style win their wins coming from experience and skill. Crispy said: "Here's something I was just thinking about, we should ask players that haven't been around in a while what they like/don't like about the tourney scene. While I think the input from our veteran players is great, I think we need to reach out to the people that don't come out anymore or come out infrequently." Which also could lead to a similar conclusion, but Travis said something at a player meeting years ago that stuck with me. "If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem". Yes, we want to try and re-excite retired players, but we have to be careful how we do it. If they've gone silently by the wayside and dropped out without voicing opinions or suggestions on how to keep their demographic interested, there's no guarantees that even if we change our own playstyles and standards, that they would rejoin the community without also losing active players in the compromise. We do need to enlist new players and re-excite old players, but not at the cost of the ones who are showing up now and making events possible.
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Post by Crispy on Nov 11, 2014 14:26:43 GMT -5
That or when they do come out you guys destroy them in games and they get discouraged at least thats how it is for the guys at 2 kings I think that's a valid concern for newly emerging tournament players, and newer players that don't really know our local crew. When you're first thinking about coming onto the tourney scene, there's already a barrier to entry: rules knowledge, competition, tournament perceptions based on the internetz, etc. Also, if you're a new person, you don't necessarily know anyone you're playing, and there isn't that familiar rapport. I think both factors can be intimidating. Put that together with the fact that most of our regulars are really good players, I can see how new players can be dis-heartened when they're taken by more veteran players. That's a hard one. Here's my approach to that situation: Traveling to a lot of event though upstate, and going to a bunch of GTs, I try to be as cordial as I can be (which can be hard after a few long rounds), and when I'm playing, I try to clarify intentions to make sure that no surprises pop up. I also try to extend the sense of community, and get the know everyone so we create more events. The result of the game isn't just about wins and losses. I'd like it to focus on cool times to be had. some of those people will be at DaBoyz GT. its a good time to talk to them and ask That's true. I think a lot of locals like to come out to Da Boyz because it's a good time, the games are a side. Which also could lead to a similar conclusion, but Travis said something at a player meeting years ago that stuck with me. "If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem". Yes, we want to try and re-excite retired players, but we have to be careful how we do it. If they've gone silently by the wayside and dropped out without voicing opinions or suggestions on how to keep their demographic interested, there's no guarantees that even if we change our own playstyles and standards, that they would rejoin the community without also losing active players in the compromise. We do need to enlist new players and re-excite old players, but not at the cost of the ones who are showing up now and making events possible. I agree, there isn't an easy solution because there's so many components, with many we can't control. I'm hopeful from a GW angle, that things are getting better (new Nids & End Times), so maybe that will bring in some old timers. Another hopeful avenue is the rise of the local clubs. B&W and us (and Erie) trying to tie the areas together.
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Post by nettik189 on Nov 11, 2014 15:08:31 GMT -5
hyv3mynd said:
Be careful with this line of thought.
When you charge people to play games and reward those who play the best, is it a fair expectation that some players "pull their punches" to go easy on other players? Where do you draw the line? A part of this is accomplished with restrictions, comp, and opponent rankings. A lot of us come out to have some fun and throw dice, and tournaments may be our only chance, but it's still a competition and some of us still get our warm fuzzies from bragging rights and monthly standings.
This hobby is a huge investment in time from assembling and painting models, as well as financially . There's a learning curve in list design, painting, and game play. It took me a full year before I had 1850pts fully painted and a full year before I won 3 games on a Saturday to place. Getting "destroyed" is part of the game. The grim darkness of the future, there is only war... and all that good stuff. Losing a lot of games is part of the learning process on the road to winning games.
I was responding to Crispy, most of the guys at 2 Kings consider themselves "casual players" and aren't into the tournament scene because of "power gamers". I know of a few that have gone outside of buffalo to play at tournaments and just get destroyed. Then go back to 2 Kings and talk about how they got destroyed and discourage everyone else from going.
The question you have to ask your self about handicapping yourself is, do you wanna win with a dickish list or do you wanna get more players into the game and want them to play in these tournaments? Getting destroyed is now apart of the game and part of the reason a lot of newer players I feel are going away from these tournaments. Back before 6th I don't think there was even a rule if you tabled your opponent (I could be wrongs it was a while ago). Now adays a lot of ppl tailor their lists just to do this.
IDK about 2Kings, I've never been there, but the Rochester tournament scene is VERY tame compared to just about any other city/region. I use, and have been accused of using some of the toughest lists in the area, but have never even tapped the potential of what GW allows in list design and force org. I've never used triple anything, you can look at every collection. 2 tervigons, 2 wave serpents, 2 NDK's. Rochester as a community is similar. I've not seen someone here pull out 3 Imperial Knights, 6 wave serpents, a full seer council, or any of the shenanigans you read about on dakka winning tournaments. Courtney, Crispy, Erich, and Koszka are probably the most frequent top finishers locally and their lists are almost always "highlander" style win their wins coming from experience and skill.
Lets be honest here while there may not be spam lists there are death star lists that can cripple any army. I like how you added the seer council in the list for shenanigans but not a beast star, or Nurgle FMC spam i find it odd because they are apart of the lists people run on dakka that win tournys. Massive amounts of deamons that infaltrate and can assault turn 1/2 are amzing aswell, Necron royal air another good list. Im not mentioning these to say you shouldnt play them or your a dick for taking them. But these new players dont have a clue how to beat these armies and they dont play against them in their little groups so they can never get better. Personally i enjoy the challange of trying to figure out how to beat someones army.
Crispy said: "Here's something I was just thinking about, we should ask players that haven't been around in a while what they like/don't like about the tourney scene. While I think the input from our veteran players is great, I think we need to reach out to the people that don't come out anymore or come out infrequently."
Which also could lead to a similar conclusion, but Travis said something at a player meeting years ago that stuck with me. "If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem". Yes, we want to try and re-excite retired players, but we have to be careful how we do it. If they've gone silently by the wayside and dropped out without voicing opinions or suggestions on how to keep their demographic interested, there's no guarantees that even if we change our own playstyles and standards, that they would rejoin the community without also losing active players in the compromise.
thats sorta a negative way to think about it, you have to expose what the problem is before you can solve it. Its sorta like saying if you have a water leak if you cant just fix it from where youare at you are a failure. You have to troubleshoot whats wrong, is it the main water line, is there a break in the pipes, is there clog. once you have found out the issues then you can address how to fix it.
We do need to enlist new players and re-excite old players, but not at the cost of the ones who are showing up now and making events possible.
If we want to get these new guys into the game we need a tournament scene where we take weak lists. Sorta like how the Beef and Wing was it was a low point try to get new players into the game type deal. Yea we have a schedule and once in a blue moon theres a low point tourny and from what i noticed there are more plyers that show up. and then we start allowing FW units and such and then no one shows up for the next tournament. just food for thought.
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