Post by crimthaan on Dec 4, 2014 21:52:29 GMT -5
There are a few things I'd like to point out about this thread that I'm not entirely sure everyone has considered in their various comments.
1. Asking Smitty to "step down" as TO, another club taking over the tournaments from DaBoyz, yadda yadda.
-Smitty does not run the Millennium tournaments under the moniker "DaBoyz"; it's his job. I'll say that again to that it sinks in... Running the Warhammer 40k tournaments is Smitty's JOB at Millennium. I think the idea of asking him to step down or try to get another club to take over the tournaments is ridiculous! Furthermore I think he's done an outstanding job this past year trying to switch up the format between comp events, no comp events, painting being countered vs. not counted, different point levels. I've also been to the last two December invitationals and I've heard him ask the community to weigh in what they wanted and he's done a good job trying to cater to each and everyone of our playing styles and desires. I'm sure no one that has brought this idea up meant any offense, but as someone that lived with Smitty for three years and considers him a good friend I find it offensive to just willy nilly call for someone else to take the reigns of being the T.O. Yes, there are months that it might not be good for his personal life to make it, and in those instance SMITTY will make the call to reach out to someone else to take over that month's tournament.
2. EVERYTHING ELSE: bringing what you want, FW, spam, building the community, yadda yadda.
I'm going to try my very best to keep this short and sweet because like anyone that has a huge amount of time and money invested in this hobby I could go on for DAYS about this.
Players that want to play in a tournament should follow the tournaments format but beyond that should expect no punches to be pulled or anything like that. I do NOT say that to be a dick; I am saying that to be blunt and honest. Tournaments are, per their definition, a competitive arena and as such people should expect to sometimes get crushed, face hard lists (again, stay within the tournament format), and face players that simply know the game better than they do. I'm sorry if players from other stores or areas have gotten crushed in Rochester but that is simply the nature of the beast. Contrary to modern culture not everyone wins, not everyone gets a trophy, and not everyone goes home feeling great. Again, if you want to play in a tournament (TOURNAMENT PEOPLE) and you get crushed you should take those losses and learn from them. The best way to learn this game it to play against better players because loosing is the best teacher. Also, not everyone that does the crushing are assholes! Koszka, Courtney, Erich, Aaron...they are all good players and I've never experienced a bad game from them due to the person they were. Sure, some of them might talk shit to liven the game up but they've never tried to cheat/lie/manipulate the system to win and have ALWAYS helped inexperienced players learn the game.
Before everyone gets out their wooden crosses and nails to crucify what I just said I want to take a moment to to express how I believe we can try to build the community and what caused its "downfall".
First, the massive drama that happened on DaBoyz forum happened two years ago and I really think it's time to let it die.
Second, although the turnout for tournaments in Rochester has gone down, the Tuesday night community is still very alive and well. I go down there every week and still see 10+ people playing, they are simply not tournament players and I think that's ok. The players that have left the game for the most part (Ben, Chris B, Zack) did not leave it due to drama or dick lists, they left the game because Games Workshop has changed it so much they didn't like it anymore OR their lives have taken them in a different direction. Chris B. got married and started building up his career and his new house, Zack is in his mid-twenties and has other shit on his plate, Ben didn't like the system anymore and moved onto X-Wing (where he still sucks I hear...ZING!) they did not leave for any other reason. DaBoyz too have a lot on their plates; Shaun is a business owner and his sons are getting older and more active, Jay took on a new management job and his daughters are getting older, Paul is always crazy busy with SUNY Geneseo, and finally I haven't come to tournaments because I'm working on my young teaching career and the whole getting married thing. I would also like to point out that tournament attendance is down nationwide because of the game system itself. SO many people have jumped from GW or at least from 40k because of the changes made; this is NOT a Rochester only problem!
Third, I personally don't believe that tournaments are the best way to build up a community for already mentioned reasons. If you guys want to build up the Rochester community let's talk to Travis and get a league or two going, lets get painting nights going, or terrain nights. If you want to build the community let's get "mentor" or "strategy" nights going for veteran players to help new players with list building or tactics. Hell, lets take a cue from Gail, the Press Ganger running the WarmaHordes escalation league which is WILDLY successful, and start an escalation league to encourage people building up from small games to larger ones. We could get really wild about this and I think it would be a LOT of fun, but it will take work and dedication from a group of people. I'm sure Travis would LOVE for this to happen and would do whatever he could to make it work for us we just need to make it happen.
Fourth, in terms of being allowed to play what you want to play AT tournaments (yes I'm looking at you Nogle and Bill in terms of 30k and FW) I think it comes down to talking as a community to Smitty about allowing these things to happen. I think if you spend that sort of money on amazing armies you should be able to play them. I know Smitty has been reluctant to allow 30k in the past but I would bet money he's willing to change that thought process now. Adding onto that discussion, Forgeworld itself should now be allowed at tournaments as long as it is within the format. I understand Aaron's argument that some people don't have the money to buy those models but ultimately that's not the the fault of the players that do spend the money to do it. They've simply prioritized FW over other things, which again is OK. I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to play with their Contemptor Dreads, Spartans, 30k stuff, Crazy monsterous-creature-rape-face-things, or anything simply because another player doesn't have the funds to buy it. That's just my blunt opinion.
Fifth, In terms of the Buffalo guys feeling like they get crushed here in Rochester because of the hard lists they encounter here... I played in the Spring tournament and some of the lists there were INSANE. My first game I played against double Knights Errants, my second game I played against 3x Riptides and 2x full units of Broadsides, and my third game I played against 4 Wave Serpents and 2 Wraithknights. Don't try to say that Buffalo doesn't have players they don't run hard lists because they do. I won best general (or whatever 2nd place is called there) because I think I had a better grasp of the game and I'm not going to apologize for that. Additionally, I was called a "power gamer" by my 2nd opponent because I spammed....I SPAMMED 3x TACTICAL SQUADS ALL WITH DIFFERENT WEAPON LOADOUTS. Aside from that I had NO repetition in the army.
Anyways, I've rambled and rambled on so I'm going to shut up. I do not mean to offend anyone. Any of my friends will tell you that I will always give my blunt and honest opinion and that's what I've done. Instead of trying to go back and forth about building the Rochester community on an internet forum let's get active and actually DO something about it.
1. Asking Smitty to "step down" as TO, another club taking over the tournaments from DaBoyz, yadda yadda.
-Smitty does not run the Millennium tournaments under the moniker "DaBoyz"; it's his job. I'll say that again to that it sinks in... Running the Warhammer 40k tournaments is Smitty's JOB at Millennium. I think the idea of asking him to step down or try to get another club to take over the tournaments is ridiculous! Furthermore I think he's done an outstanding job this past year trying to switch up the format between comp events, no comp events, painting being countered vs. not counted, different point levels. I've also been to the last two December invitationals and I've heard him ask the community to weigh in what they wanted and he's done a good job trying to cater to each and everyone of our playing styles and desires. I'm sure no one that has brought this idea up meant any offense, but as someone that lived with Smitty for three years and considers him a good friend I find it offensive to just willy nilly call for someone else to take the reigns of being the T.O. Yes, there are months that it might not be good for his personal life to make it, and in those instance SMITTY will make the call to reach out to someone else to take over that month's tournament.
2. EVERYTHING ELSE: bringing what you want, FW, spam, building the community, yadda yadda.
I'm going to try my very best to keep this short and sweet because like anyone that has a huge amount of time and money invested in this hobby I could go on for DAYS about this.
Players that want to play in a tournament should follow the tournaments format but beyond that should expect no punches to be pulled or anything like that. I do NOT say that to be a dick; I am saying that to be blunt and honest. Tournaments are, per their definition, a competitive arena and as such people should expect to sometimes get crushed, face hard lists (again, stay within the tournament format), and face players that simply know the game better than they do. I'm sorry if players from other stores or areas have gotten crushed in Rochester but that is simply the nature of the beast. Contrary to modern culture not everyone wins, not everyone gets a trophy, and not everyone goes home feeling great. Again, if you want to play in a tournament (TOURNAMENT PEOPLE) and you get crushed you should take those losses and learn from them. The best way to learn this game it to play against better players because loosing is the best teacher. Also, not everyone that does the crushing are assholes! Koszka, Courtney, Erich, Aaron...they are all good players and I've never experienced a bad game from them due to the person they were. Sure, some of them might talk shit to liven the game up but they've never tried to cheat/lie/manipulate the system to win and have ALWAYS helped inexperienced players learn the game.
Before everyone gets out their wooden crosses and nails to crucify what I just said I want to take a moment to to express how I believe we can try to build the community and what caused its "downfall".
First, the massive drama that happened on DaBoyz forum happened two years ago and I really think it's time to let it die.
Second, although the turnout for tournaments in Rochester has gone down, the Tuesday night community is still very alive and well. I go down there every week and still see 10+ people playing, they are simply not tournament players and I think that's ok. The players that have left the game for the most part (Ben, Chris B, Zack) did not leave it due to drama or dick lists, they left the game because Games Workshop has changed it so much they didn't like it anymore OR their lives have taken them in a different direction. Chris B. got married and started building up his career and his new house, Zack is in his mid-twenties and has other shit on his plate, Ben didn't like the system anymore and moved onto X-Wing (where he still sucks I hear...ZING!) they did not leave for any other reason. DaBoyz too have a lot on their plates; Shaun is a business owner and his sons are getting older and more active, Jay took on a new management job and his daughters are getting older, Paul is always crazy busy with SUNY Geneseo, and finally I haven't come to tournaments because I'm working on my young teaching career and the whole getting married thing. I would also like to point out that tournament attendance is down nationwide because of the game system itself. SO many people have jumped from GW or at least from 40k because of the changes made; this is NOT a Rochester only problem!
Third, I personally don't believe that tournaments are the best way to build up a community for already mentioned reasons. If you guys want to build up the Rochester community let's talk to Travis and get a league or two going, lets get painting nights going, or terrain nights. If you want to build the community let's get "mentor" or "strategy" nights going for veteran players to help new players with list building or tactics. Hell, lets take a cue from Gail, the Press Ganger running the WarmaHordes escalation league which is WILDLY successful, and start an escalation league to encourage people building up from small games to larger ones. We could get really wild about this and I think it would be a LOT of fun, but it will take work and dedication from a group of people. I'm sure Travis would LOVE for this to happen and would do whatever he could to make it work for us we just need to make it happen.
Fourth, in terms of being allowed to play what you want to play AT tournaments (yes I'm looking at you Nogle and Bill in terms of 30k and FW) I think it comes down to talking as a community to Smitty about allowing these things to happen. I think if you spend that sort of money on amazing armies you should be able to play them. I know Smitty has been reluctant to allow 30k in the past but I would bet money he's willing to change that thought process now. Adding onto that discussion, Forgeworld itself should now be allowed at tournaments as long as it is within the format. I understand Aaron's argument that some people don't have the money to buy those models but ultimately that's not the the fault of the players that do spend the money to do it. They've simply prioritized FW over other things, which again is OK. I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to play with their Contemptor Dreads, Spartans, 30k stuff, Crazy monsterous-creature-rape-face-things, or anything simply because another player doesn't have the funds to buy it. That's just my blunt opinion.
Fifth, In terms of the Buffalo guys feeling like they get crushed here in Rochester because of the hard lists they encounter here... I played in the Spring tournament and some of the lists there were INSANE. My first game I played against double Knights Errants, my second game I played against 3x Riptides and 2x full units of Broadsides, and my third game I played against 4 Wave Serpents and 2 Wraithknights. Don't try to say that Buffalo doesn't have players they don't run hard lists because they do. I won best general (or whatever 2nd place is called there) because I think I had a better grasp of the game and I'm not going to apologize for that. Additionally, I was called a "power gamer" by my 2nd opponent because I spammed....I SPAMMED 3x TACTICAL SQUADS ALL WITH DIFFERENT WEAPON LOADOUTS. Aside from that I had NO repetition in the army.
Anyways, I've rambled and rambled on so I'm going to shut up. I do not mean to offend anyone. Any of my friends will tell you that I will always give my blunt and honest opinion and that's what I've done. Instead of trying to go back and forth about building the Rochester community on an internet forum let's get active and actually DO something about it.